OR: “Why Red & Liz Have a Better Shot Than Most”

“What is the deal with you two, anyways? It’s what everybody wants to know. Some say it’s a daddy-daughter thing. Others swear it’s May/September. I prefer to believe it’s a little of both.”

–Mathias Solomon about Raymond ‘Red’ Reddington and FBI Agent Episode Keen on The Blacklist Episode 3.05 “Arioch Cain”

I’ll admit that when I first saw The Blacklist pilot in 2013, only a few days after it aired, I was confused by the weird dynamic between Red and Liz. Like many, I assumed that he was her father, and that this show was following on the heels of Taken in having a father-daughter crime/action thing going on. However, maybe four or five episodes into the show, I started to see that the father-daughter read of their dynamic was off. And, by the time that Red denied being Liz’s father in Episode 1.10, I was fully on board with the idea that — rather than being a father-daughter pairing — these two were going to be an endgame couple.

And, whenever Episode 3.05 aired and we got this fun little fourth-wall- breaking quote from Solomon, asking what the deal was between Red and Liz, it was great to see one of the show’s bigger villains (at that point) acknowledging that Red and Liz can have a dynamic that is something between the two. There can be a kind of mentoring dynamic where he is her elder and is teaching her how to navigate the world, while one or both of them can be in love and want to pursue a relationship with the other person.

(Author’s Note: While I rewrote the above intro, the rest of the article is something I posted on my social media about a year ago and re-posted here with the Nerds’ permission. At the end, it starts talking about the status of Red and Liz’s relationship post-Season 5. I realize that the events of Season 6 change some of the dynamics — with Liz telling Red that she loves him and then subsequently ‘dad-zoning’ him, and then Red and Katarina having a weird sensual moment at the end of the S6 finale, so I threw a little note at the bottom to address the developments in Season 6.)

Now, I have to tell you all that May/September relationships is a trope that frequently pops up in my favorite media or among my favorite fictional couples. And, one day, while trying to plot out another Blacklist-related article, I thought of several other examples of “older men falling in love with younger women” in various books, movies, etc. that I enjoy. Sometimes the relationships work out; sometimes they don’t.

Today, I’d like to use them as examples for why I think Red & Liz have a great chance of being endgame and becoming canon. I think it’d also be helpful for fans who decry that Red’s affection for Liz is paternal and ONLY paternal to see other examples of older men falling for younger women, including some who fall for young ladies in their care (adopted daughters, students, etc.) I could include Bill & The Bride from Kill Bill, but I’ve already done another post about the similarities between Red & Liz and them, so I won’t repeat myself here.

Now, I’m not saying all of the below pairings are HEALTHY relationships, mind you; but this type of dynamic isn’t unprecedented, and the interweaving patterns among them paves a pretty clear path for Red & Liz to become canon. In other words, these examples give us criteria for successful May/September relationships in media.

I’d like to briefly examine the plot details and character dynamics of 10 fictional pairings between older men and women who are AT LEAST 15 years younger than the men (oftentimes, they’re more like 20+ years younger) and where the man has proposed to or professed his love for the young lady in question.

I realize that there are probably other examples of May/September romances that won’t be on this list, but I’m only writing about pairings and media that I’m familiar with. I’m also going through them in no particular order.

As you read about each pairing — again, remember that not all of them work out — look for patterns in WHY they do or don’t work out. What impediments or obstacles there are to overcome, whether physical, emotional, etc.

SPOILERS FOR ALL THE FOLLOWING MEDIA LISTED

Mr. Boldwood, Bathsheba Everdeen from Far From the Madding Crowd

Bathsheba, after she inherits a small estate from her uncle, becomes Mr. Boldwood’s neighbor. He initially shows no interest in her; but after she sends him a valentine on a dare, he becomes obsessed and infatuated with her. He makes her an offer of marriage, and she says she’ll consider it. Later, she ends up marrying another man (who’s closer to her in age), and Boldwood becomes enraged at the match. When Bathsheba’s husband goes missing and is presumed dead, Boldwood again offers himself to Bathsheba, and she again says she’ll consider it. Her husband returns and Boldwood flies into a rage and kills him. After Boldwood goes to prison, Bathsheba marries Gabriel Oakes, who had been in love with her before she inherited her estate and moved above him socially.

Now, I’m not entirely sure on the age gap, as I haven’t read the novel. But based on the two miniseries adaptations I’ve seen, I’d guess Bathsheba is around 20, and Boldwood is supposed to be 40+.

It’s clear that Bathsheba doesn’t dislike Mr. Boldwood, but as the story progresses, she becomes seemingly more and more uncomfortable around him. After her husband goes missing, she really only considers Boldwood’s offer because her estate is doing poorly financially, and marrying him would give her the wealth and resources to help save it.

The Phantom (a.k.a. Erik), Christine Daae from The Phantom of the Opera

Let me say that there are several versions of the story, but I’m sticking to the story as seen in the original novel, the ALW musical and the Yeston/Koppit musical, as they’re all pretty similar.

When Christine comes to the opera house as a young woman (maybe 15-16?), she hears “the Angel of Music” (really the Phantom), who offers to coach her in singing. Eventually, she becomes good enough to take over the leading soprano role in the opera house’s productions. The Phantom is pleased, and reveals himself to her for the first time. At the same time, her childhood sweetheart Raoul also reappears in her life, clearly in love with her. Eventually, there’s a showdown after the Phantom kidnaps Christine and threatens Raoul’s life if she doesn’t marry him. Christine agrees to marry the Phantom, but (after Christine kisses him) he regrets what he’s done and lets them go so they can be together.

It’s unclear how old Christine was when she first started taking lessons from the Phantom, but she’s probably 18-20 during the ‘present day’ events of the novel. She’s about the same age in both the stage musicals. In the Yeston/Koppit version, we get to see the Phantom coaching her, and I’d estimate that he only does so for a few months before Raoul reappears and the whole ‘love triangle’ thing goes down. It’s also unclear, given the Phantom’s horrid features, to tell exactly how old he is. But (in the novel) the Persian lists the Phantom’s entire CV, and it’s probably fair to estimate he’s about 35-40, if not older.

It should be noted that Christine doesn’t return the Phantom’s feelings exactly, but in every version, she has some measure of affection, respect and admiration for him. Obviously, she doesn’t love him in the same way that she loves Raoul, but she still has some measure of love for him as her teacher and as a talented musician in his own right. I should mention that in the ALW version, a few times Christine psychologically projects her father’s spirit onto the Angel of Music/The Phantom, and the Phantom (in that version), definitely uses that to his advantage as a way to lure her in and try to get closer to her (physically and emotionally).

Judge Turpin, Johanna from Sweeney Todd

Johanna is Judge Turpin’s ward, whom he took custody of after he sentenced her father to be transported to another country so he could sexually assault her mother. Johanna’s mother goes mad after he does so, and as no one else is around to raise Johanna, Turpin takes her in. As she matures and becomes a young woman, he’s seen to be incredibly possessive of Johanna. He spies on her and fantasizes about her; and when a young man “ganders” at Johanna’s window from the street, Turpin threatens him. He is clearly deranged and perverted. When Johanna tries to run away with the young man, Turpin sends her to the madhouse. Later, he meets his end by Johanna’s father (Sweeney Todd), and Johanna and the young man run off together.

From what I can tell of the movie’s flashbacks, Johanna is very young when Turpin takes her in. Probably a year old; maybe younger. And, the bulk of the story takes place when Johanna is about 15. This is when Turpin proposes, or at least, intends to propose to Johanna. It’s not really stated how old Turpin is, but he’s at least the same age as Sweeney Todd (Johanna’s father), if not older.

It should also be noted that Johanna does not return his affections at all. She tries to respect him, as her guardian, but she’s definitely picked up on his creeper vibes, and doesn’t consider him ‘husband material’ at all.

Also, this is probably our darkest of the pairings; so apologies for that.

Mr. Rochester, Jane Eyre from Jane Eyre

I’ve already compared Rochester/Jane to Red/Liz before, so I’ll try to go through this pretty fast.

Jane, fresh out of school, works at Rochester’s house as a governess for his ward. Eventually, Jane and Rochester fall in love and prepare to get married. At the wedding, it’s revealed that Rochester is already married and his wife (who lives in the attic of his house) is an insane woman who has been responsible for a lot of mishaps that have occurred since Jane arrived. With this revealed, Jane leaves Rochester — still in love with him. She wanders around, and eventually settles at a village where the local reverend asks her to marry him so that she might accompany him on his missionary trip. She declines because she doesn’t love him, and eventually goes back to Rochester (who’s wife has now died in an accident, which also left him blind and handicapped). Jane and Rochester eventually get married.

It’s been a while since I read the book, but Jane is specifically stated to be young enough to be Rochester’s biological child. She’s 18-20; he’s probably in his early 40s.

You’ll note that this is one of a few examples where the couple actually gets together.

Edmond Dantes (a.k.a. The Count of Monte Cristo), Haydee from The Count of Monte Cristo

Another comparison that I touched on briefly before, so I won’t spend much time on this pairing.

The novel skips over a long period of time, from when Dantes escapes prison to when he has Albert (the son of his rival and his former fiancee) kidnapped in Venice. But, during that time, Dantes found Haydee, an orphan, and purchases her to be his slave. Haydee proves to be very crucial in his revenge plot against Ferdinand (his rival); and at the end, Haydee asks to go away with Dantes, that two of them might be ~together~.

It’s been a long time since I read the book, and the best adaptation I’ve ever seen was an anime version (Gankutsuou). But, from my recollection — and correct me if I’m wrong — Haydee was maybe 6 when Dantes found her. And she’s probably 14-16 at the end of the novel, when the bulk of the story takes place.

Despite being his “slave,” Haydee is really more of Dantes’ ward. He doesn’t force her to do anything, and allows her more freedom than an actual slave would have. In “Gankutsuou,” at least, she seems to have some authority over the other servants in the household. She’s clearly very devoted to Dantes, as he was her savior — the man who gave her a home.

Again, one of the few examples where the couple ends up together.

Petyr Baelish (a.k.a. Littlefinger), Sansa Stark from Game of Thrones TV Show / A Song of Ice & Fire Book Series

One of two couples from GOT I’ll be talking about. I realize the show is ahead of the books, so I’ll be drawing on elements from both.

Sansa first meets Littlefinger when she comes to King’s Landing with her father in book 1/season 1. Petyr clearly shows some kind of weird interest in her; but it’s not until later — after Sansa is married off to Tyrion — that Littlefinger kidnaps/rescues her and takes her “home” to the Vale (where her aunt lives). After Littlefinger marries then kills Sansa’s aunt, he becomes her defacto guardian. In the books, at this point, Sansa has been hiding out as his bastard daughter Alayne. In the show, Littlefinger goes on to arrange a marriage to Sansa and Ramsay Bolton (who’s a dick). And then after Littlefinger has helped Sansa defeat Ramsay and take back Winterfell (her true home), he declares his love for her. Sansa is unsurprised by this, and rejects his offer but doesn’t kick him out of Winterfell. About a season after this happens, Sansa has him executed for crimes he committed against her family.

You’ll note that it’s slightly different from book to show, but in the book, Littlefinger sees Sansa (per the author) both as a faux daughter and as a love interest. She is the daughter of Catelyn, the woman he loved as a young boy and whom he has never gotten over. Now, he sees Sansa as the daughter he might’ve had with Cat, while also seeing her as a young Cat.

And, again, in the book, Littlefinger acts in a weird mix of paternal and romantic (such as calling her beautiful and kissing her).

As for the age difference, Littlefinger is a few years younger than Sansa’s mother. So, he’s probably… 30-35. Sansa, meanwhile, was like 11 when she first met him. And she’s 13 or 14 in the upcoming book, The Winds of Winter. In the show, though, she’s probably closer to 18 when Littlefinger ‘proposes’ at Winterfell at the end of Season 6.

In both the book and the show, Sansa has some measure of gratitude for Littlefinger at various points in the story. She’s grateful to him for his friendship in King’s Landing, as she feels that he’s one of the few people she can trust (in the show). And after he brings her to the Vale, she remarks how he essentially rescued her from the Lannisters in doing so. She clearly doesn’t return his feelings in either book or show; but given that she’s younger in the book and is trying to maintain her cover and stay on his good side, she doesn’t really rebuke him either. His feelings toward her definitely make her uncomfortable in both book and show.

While his fate is uncertain right now in the books, given what’s happened to him on GOT, I’d say Littlefinger’s probably not an endgame match for Sansa.

And speaking of GOT…

Jorah Mormont, Daenerys Targaryen from Game of Thrones TV Show / A Song of Ice & Fire Book Series

Dany first meets Jorah at her wedding to Khal Drogo. Jorah is sworn to her brother, but stays at her side as part of her (and her brother’s) entourage. He helps her get to know her new people, the Dothraki, and eventually turns on her brother to serve her. After Khal Drogo dies and Dany ‘births’ dragons, he swears to serve her for the rest of his life, and stays by her side through several subsequent books. All this time, though, Jorah has been spying on Dany and only stops midway through Book 2; she doesn’t find out until late Book 3 (IIRC). She decides to exile him for his betrayal. Again, the exact plot timeline differs from book to show. In the show, Jorah has reunited with Dany after his exile and she has forgiven him. He continues to serve her, and is clearly jealous and upset when she takes on new lovers. In the books, Jorah declares his love to Dany in early Book 3; and in the show, Jorah declares his love for her mid-S6.

Again, I’m not exactly sure how old Jorah is, but based on the ASOIAF’s internal calendar, he’s about 45 when he meets Dany in Book 1. She, meanwhile, is 13. When exactly Jorah falls in love with her isn’t clear, but I’d say mid-Book 1; in the show, Jorah says he’s loved her since he first saw her.

In both book and show, Dany has a clear regard for Jorah, although she doesn’t return his affections romantically, and she has other (younger) love interests. She appreciates his protection, his strength, his counsel, his devotion… all of which she says she relies on at some point. In S4, Dany calls him her “most trusted adviser, my most valued general, and my dearest friend.” There’s also a long-running joke among GOT fans that Jorah has been “friend-zoned” by Dany, as she knows by book/season 2 that he’s in love with her, even though he hasn’t said so at that point.

Likewise, while Jorah’s fate is uncertain right now in the books, given what’s happened to him and Dany on GOT, I’d say they’re not going to end up together in the books.

Colonel Brandon, Marianne Dashwood from Sense & Sensibility

Marianne, who’s 17, moves with her family to a new cottage; their neighbors introduce them to Colonel Brandon, who immediately falls for Marianne. The guy clearly has a type, as he compares Marianne to another woman he was previously in love with, saying they both have the same intensity of feeling and sweet temperament. When the neighbors inform Marianne that Brandon has fallen for her, she’s awkwarded-out at the idea, as he’s 35 and “too old” for her. She admits that he’s a worthier companion, conversion-wise, than anyone else in the neighborhood, but she seeks to avoid him after his desires are made known to her. Meanwhile, she falls for Willoughby, a younger man who comes into the neighborhood and befriends Marianne and her family. Marianne and Willoughby act close enough that people begin to wonder if they’re secretly engaged, but Willoughby leaves suddenly, leaving Marianne distraught. Anyway, long story short, Willoughby ditches Marianne for another woman with more money and Marianne finds out he’s not at all noble or good, as he’d ruined another woman before meeting her. During the time it was rumored Marianne and Willoughby were engaged, Brandon — upset at the match for multiple reasons — makes it clear that he only wants Marianne to be happy. But, with Willoughby out of the way and Marianne finally starting to get over him, he eventually proposes to her and she accepts.

So, another thing that’s always weirded me out about the age gap between Brandon and Marianne, is that Brandon has a female ward who’s only two years younger than Marianne. Granted, his ward doesn’t live with him, and he seems to regard her in a distant, paternal way, but I still think it’s weird that he falls for a 17-year-old when he’s the guardian of a 15-year-old. But, yeah, things were different back then.

Anyway, unlike some of these other pairings, it’s made pretty clear to Marianne from the start that Colonel Brandon is a potential romantic match for her. She never sees him in a fatherly way or as a man in a position of authority over her. Even before she knew of his interest in her, she regarded him as a friendly neighbor. And, again, she doesn’t initially hate him or love him; she regards him in a platonic sense. Later, though, she realizes that she’s in love with him and they get married.

Elias Ainsworth, Chise Hatori from The Ancient Magus’ Bride

The only entry on here that’s from a manga/anime. Chise, 15, has special magical properties that make her life difficult. She wants to commit suicide, but someone convinces her to sell herself in a magical auction, where Elias buys her. Elias informs Chise he’s bought her to be his apprentice, and then at the very end of the first episode/chapter, he also announces that — in addition to being his apprentice — he also bought her to be his bride. The two go on a lot of adventures, including finding out about Elias’ dark past and Chise’s traumatic history, and the two eventually get “married.” Elias and Chise also agree that just as Elias teaches Chise about magic, she is to teach him about humans and emotions.

Now I should mention that Elias isn’t technically human; he’s some kind of mix-breed of a magical creature… probably a wendigo. And we’re not exactly sure how old he is. Hundreds of years old, at least, as we see in his backstory. Chise, meanwhile, is 15.

I should also note that their relationship doesn’t start out at all healthy, and they both have to do a lot of work to better themselves individually. Initially, Elias keeps important truths from Chise and also gets jealous of her friends and becomes possessive of her. Chise, meanwhile, becomes very loyal and attached to Elias quite quickly, saying that she’ll always stay with him. She sees him as someone who has provided a home and a sense of security and warmth, which she always desperately craved. He provides her with a sense of belonging — she belongs to him, she belongs by his side, at his home, etc.

Also note that Elias announces himself as Chise’s romantic interest at almost the same time he announces he’s her guardian/teacher. So, while she might’ve initially seen him only as an authority figure, it’s only a few days later that he announces his full intentions.

Mr. John Jarndyce, Esther Summerson from Bleak House

Esther is an orphan who was raised by her aunt, secluded and away from the world. Her aunt dies when she’s 13/14, and she falls into the care of John Jarndyce. Now, she doesn’t actually meet him after her aunt dies; instead, he acts through a lawyer and she accepts his offer to be sent to school. When she’s around 18, Jarndyce sends for her so that she can be companion to another ward of his, Ada. Jarndyce brings Esther, Ada and another ward Rick to his house, and their lives progress somewhat pleasantly. As we find out later in the story, Jarndyce — after he found out about Esther’s existence — had dreamed of one day making her his bride when she was older. Eventually, Rick and Ada pair off, leaving Jarndyce to propose to Esther. She accepts, but they decide to keep the engagement a secret. Meanwhile, Esther has another, younger love interest (Allan Woodcourt), but he went away to sea, and Esther figured they would never meet again. However, after she and Jarndyce are engaged, Woodcourt returns and proposes to her. She refuses, saying she’s already engaged. Jarndyce figures out that Esther and Woodcourt love each other, and breaks off his engagement to Esther so the other two can be happy.

As far as I can tell, it’s never stated in the novel how old Jarndyce is. It’s safe to assume he’s probably 40+. Esther is about 18 when she comes to live with him at Bleak House, and I’d say at least a year or two passes over the course of the story. Again, remember that Esther might’ve been in Jarndyce’s care from age 14, but she never saw or met him until she was 18.

So, while Jarndyce clearly has intentions toward Esther from the beginning, Esther always regards him as a very kindly man who has taken her on as her guardian. In the novel, she is constantly calling him “Guardian.” Honestly, it’s really annoying. In the miniseries adaptation, she notes several times that she regards him as a fatherly figure, which makes him uncomfortable. Hell, after he’s proposed and she’s accepted, he asks that they keep the engagement a secret to give Esther time to get used to the idea, because — and I quote Jarndyce’s dialogue in the miniseries here — “You thought of me more as a father; rather than a lover.” Regardless, throughout the whole of the novel, Esther has a powerful regard for him, mainly springing from a tremendous sense of gratitude for what he’s done for her. Jarndyce even mentions this when he breaks off the engagement, saying that he took advantage of her gratitude and affection for him when he proposed to her.

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WHAT DOES ALL OF THIS MEAN FOR RED AND LIZ?

You may or may not have picked up on the patterns, but from the above examples, a few things become clear:

1) THE MORE HEROIC, OR AT LEAST SYMPATHETIC, THE MALE CHARACTER IS, THE MORE LIKELY IT IS THAT THE MAY/SEPTEMBER PAIRING WILL END UP TOGETHER.

As you saw, the more villainous characters didn’t end up with their love interests at all.

Turpin, Littlefinger and Mr. Boldwood all fall into deep ‘villain’ territory. Jorah and The Phantom maybe aren’t pure villains like those three, but they’ve committed pretty serious offenses against their love interests, so that puts them more in ‘anti-hero’ or ‘tragic hero’ camp.

Jarndyce is the only purely heroic character who DOESN’T end up with his love interest, but that’s because he falls into the “I want my beloved to be happy” trope — which we’ll discuss more in a minute. Brandon almost goes this route too, but circumstances work out in their favor.

Of course, both Dantes and Rochester are Byronic heroes, who end up with their love interests, but only after some deep self-reflection and maybe even bits of atonement.

Likewise, I wouldn’t say Elias is a Byronic hero exactly, but he is a mixture of heroic and villainous character traits, but with a sympathetic bend. It seems the reader is supposed to root for Elias, but his questionable past and some of his actions in the ‘present day’ indicate that he still has to grow a LOT emotionally for his relationship with Chise to be healthy.

2) THE OLDER THE FEMALE CHARACTER IS WHEN SHE FIRST MEETS THE MALE CHARACTER, THE MORE LIKELY IT IS THAT THE PAIRING WILL END UP TOGETHER … OR, AT THE VERY LEAST, THE MORE LIKELY IT IS THAT SHE WILL ENTERTAIN HIS PROPOSALS.

With the exception of Haydee, all of our successful couples had met when the young lady was at least 15+. Chise is 15 when she meets Elias; Jane is 18-20 when she meets Rochester; and Marianne is 17 when she meets Colonel Brandon.

Also of note, Esther finally met Jarndyce when she was about 18; and Bathsheba met Boldwood when she was around 20.

The longer and the younger the man has known the young lady, the less likely it is that she will see him as a love interest.

You’ll also note that if the man is in a position of authority (guardian/teacher) over the young woman, it’s LESS likely that they will end up together. Littlefinger acts as Sansa’s father while she’s undercover in the Vale; Jorah is Dany’s adviser; Turpin is Johanna’s guardian; the Phantom is Christine’s teacher and sort of projected-onto father figure; and Jarndyce is Esther’s guardian.

Again, Dantes/Haydee are the big exception — and Elias/Chise to some degree, but he doesn’t take very long to tell her about his plans to make her his bride.

3) IF THE FEMALE CHARACTER HAS ANOTHER, MORE AGE-APPROPRIATE LOVE INTEREST, THE LESS LIKELY IT IS THAT THE DISCUSSED PAIRING WILL END UP TOGETHER.

Looking at the successful couples, none of them have younger love interests who REALLY compete for the woman’s affection over the older man’s. Haydee doesn’t have a younger love interest, and neither does Chise.

Jane does have a false love interest after she runs away from Rochester, but she rejects his offer of marriage as she isn’t in love with him and never could be.

For a period of time, it does seem to the reader that Marianne and Willoughby are going to end up together. However, after Willoughby’s true character is revealed and he marries another woman, the one plot element stopping Brandon and Marianne from being together is removed, allowing the pairing to eventually work out.

Basically, if the woman DOES have a younger love interest, the best way to get him out of the picture is to have HIM run off with someone else, leaving the May/September pairing to get together.

And, looking over the unsuccessful couples, it’s no wonder why they didn’t work out, especially if the younger love interest is more heroic or virtuous than the older man. Turpin, Jorah, the Phantom, Boldwood and even Littlefinger to a degree … all of them lose out to younger, better love interests.

And, Jarndyce, likewise pulls the hero move and releases Esther from their engagement so she can be with Woodcourt, the man she loves.

((And unofficially:

4) OBVIOUSLY, THE MORE AFFECTION THE FEMALE CHARACTER FEELS FOR THE MALE CHARACTER, THE MORE LIKELY IT IS THAT THE PAIRING WILL END UP TOGETHER.

This is pretty obvious, so I won’t go into a lot of detail about it until later.))

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Basically, if you want to overcome a 15+ year age gap, you need at least 2 of the 3 things in your favor. There’s no successful couple among the 10 pairings discussed who doesn’t have at least two of these three things going for them.

So, with all that in mind, let’s take a look at how Red and Liz stack up against these criteria for a successful May/September pairing:

Raymond “Red” Reddington (alias), Elizabeth Keen (a.k.a. Masha Rostova) from The Blacklist

1. IS RED A HEROIC, OR AT LEAST SYMPATHETIC, CHARACTER?

As discussed previously, Red is very much a modern-day version of a Byronic hero, in the same vein as Dantes or Rochester. He has done some wicked deeds, but he is very much a man who craves goodness, redemption and forgiveness.

And, like Elias, he’s a very complicated character — a mixture of both heroic and villainous elements, and yet we (as the audience) are supposed to root for him. We are terrified of his dark nature, but realize that he desire to be more human and less monstrous.

So, is Red heroic? No, I wouldn’t say so. Granted, this show doesn’t have hardly any characters who would be “lawful good” on the alignment chart. Hell, even Cooper has shown that he’s willing to bend the rules in the name of ‘security’ or ‘the greater good.’ So, no, Red’s not a hero. Nobody on this show is; that’s the world that they live in.

But… is Red sympathetic? Yes. Again, if he’s a Byronic hero, he has as much chance of ending up with Liz as Rochester did with Jane or Dantes did with Haydee. And those pairings worked out. Elias and Chise… also worked out.

Two flawed, broken people who have a tendency to do darker things than they’d like but have a craving for goodness and righteousness … yeah, I’d say they have a good chance to be together.

Now, it’s possible that Red could fall into ‘Phantom’ territory, as the Phantom is somewhat sympathetic, but, like Red, has done some very wicked and vile things, particularly to his love interest.

But, let’s maybe take a look at the other criteria first, and for now say that The Blacklist is 1 / 1.

2. DID LIZ FIRST MEET RED WAS SHE WAS OLDER (15+)?

This is the problem child, right here. Because, technically, Liz FIRST met Red when she was 4 years old.

However, unlike Johanna or Dany or Sansa, she wasn’t around Red constantly from there on out. She met him — as far as we know — once, briefly, under dire circumstances and then had her memory of the incident altered. She didn’t recognize him in the pilot; she had no idea they’d ever met before.

In Episode 2.10, she DOES recall he was at her house The Night of the Fire, but she just says “You were there,” and Red doesn’t deny it. We’re not sure if Liz remembers our Red being there (as he likely would’ve looked very different being 30 years younger and pre-plastic surgery) … or if she remembers “Raymond Reddington” (the real one, her dad) being there.

But, regardless, they only met the once (again, as far as we know). Liz was thereafter raised by Sam and didn’t REALLY meet Red until she was like 30 years old.

So, that’s good. Of all our above pairings, the oldest one of our women meeting her older love interest was 20-ish years old (Bathsheba meeting Boldwood). Liz should have a level of maturity, experience and wisdom that none of our above female characters had.

Now, here’s the kicker: all of Season 5, Liz believed Red was her dad. This likely takes place over 2-3 years, based on Agnes’ age the few times we see her. So, for 2-3 years, Liz has believed that this man was her dad.

Now, on the one hand, this definitely made her feel a sense of obligatory, filial love toward him; but on the other hand, if she’d ever had any kind of non-filial / non-platonic thoughts about him pre-Season 5, all of that now would now seem incredibly creepy and unwelcome in her mind.

Of course, now, she knows differently. Even if she’s going to have to keep on acting like Red is her dad around him.

While it’s definitely weird, I will say that Liz discovered this when she was an adult, after she’d known Red for years. It’s not like he’d been in her life this whole time, as a guardian-type figure. He’s never REALLY been in a position of authority over her. In the pilot, he specifically remarks that they’re going to be a great TEAM. Shortly after, Liz gets mad at him saying that they’re not a team, and she’s not his partner. So, from the outset, the powers that be were trying to implant in our minds the notion that Liz and Red are equals. Whether they really are is another question; but that was, at least, the intent.

So, overall… let’s say 0.5 points for this one, giving us 1.5 / 2 total.

3. DOES LIZ HAVE ANOTHER, YOUNGER LOVE INTEREST?

This clearly would’ve been Tom, except that he’s dead.

Yep, the powers that be went the Willoughby route and paired the ~false love interest~ off with someone or, in this case, something else: his coffin, six feet under.

I should note that in all the above examples (with the exception of Linus/Sabrina) all the older male love interests were in the picture BEFORE the younger male interests were. (With Linus and Sabrina, the two brothers entered Sabrina’s life simultaneously.) We never had an instance where the YOUNGER man was there first, and the older man stepped into her life to become her love interest.

But, what about the possibility of the showrunners giving Liz *another* younger love interest now that Tom’s dead? Well, I mean… I guess they *could*. But comments from the showrunners after Episode 5.08 indicate that Red & Liz are our endgame coupling. I suppose they could have some nice, normal guy enter Liz’s life, she falls in love with him, and they ride off into the sunset with Red’s “I just want my beloved to be happy” blessing, a la The Phantom and Jarndyce.

They could. But really, they kind of already did that in Seasons 1-5. Red specifically tells Tom that he didn’t kill him at the first wedding because of how much Liz loved him. And, after Liz found out “Red” was her father, Red played along like the ‘father of the bride’ and let Liz and Tom pretty much do their own thing (minus the Bag O’ Bones nonsense).

No. I don’t think the powers that be are going to give Liz another long-term love interest. They might have her date some other guy(s) to show us that she’s moving on from Tom. Hell, maybe they’ll have her and Ressler hook-up because we just need more weird Grey’s Anatomy / Eskimo brothers and sisters bullshit on this show.

So… 2.5 / 3. Not bad.

But, let’s look at that last one:

4. WHAT KIND OF AFFECTION DOES LIZ HAVE FOR RED?

Well, clearly, right now (at the end of Season 5) she hates him.

Any “I care about you, deal with that” … any “Where’s my friend?”  … any “Raymond, I do love—”… any “I’ll come for you” … that’s all out the window. She hates Red’s guts right now.

And, honestly, I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Under the circumstances, I’d say that’s pretty reasonable. If I found out someone had stolen my dad’s identity and had been playing some kind of game with me… I don’t think I’d want to kill him; but, I definitely wouldn’t want him in my life any more.

Looking back over our above pairings, the only other instance where the young woman completely hates the older man is Johanna and Judge Turpin. And, while I hate to use them as an example, they provide a good contrast for Red & Liz.

Turpin, unlike Red, is a pure villain. He’s a pervert; he abused Johanna’s mother; he basically sentenced her father to death; and his intentions toward Johanna are purely physical and selfish.

Red, on the other hand — while he’s done some dark deeds — has treated Liz like a gentleman should. He does withhold some truths; he does endanger her. But he’s also been willing to give his life for hers several times now; he’s offered to walk away; and he’s helped her in every way he can, including giving her space when she asks him to.

So, Red has an advantage here.

Johanna has also always regarded Turpin as her guardian; not as a love interest. Liz, on the other hand, was introduced to Red as a grown woman.

Advantage Red/Liz.

And, Johanna had a younger love interest, which Liz currently does not.

So, while Red and Liz have 2.5 of the 3 boxes checked, Johanna/Tuprin have none, which shouldn’t be surprising to anyone who’s seen Sweeney Todd.

Anyway, my real point here is that Red & Liz are much better off. Characters’ feelings can change very easily (see… the entirety of The Blacklist up to this point). But, having the show’s plot and themes working in favor of the pairing… that’s a lot harder to change retroactively.

And, honestly, if Liz didn’t hate Red, I think her character would be unlikable. If she were blindly loyal to him the way Chise is to Elias and Haydee is to Dantes — to the point where readers/viewers argue whether they have any free will of their own — we’d hate her for it.

If she were like Christine in The Phantom of the Opera, only taking pity on him for what the world’s hatred has made him become… it would be out-of-character for her.

If she looked on him with filial or platonic gratitude, the way Esther saw Jarndyce, or Dany sees Jorah, or Sansa sees Littlefinger, it would basically mean that Red would forever be in the ‘dad-zone’ or ‘friend-zone.’

No, her hating him is good, because it means she doesn’t NOT see him as a potential love interest. If she loved him as a father figure or as a friend, TPTB would have her run off to end up with someone else while Red went the Jarndyce/Phantom route.

Right now, Liz is taken aback much in the same way that Jane is when she finds out Rochester’s secret. She feels betrayed, hurt and vulnerable. She’s lashing out by distancing herself from him in an effort to protect herself and her feelings, in the way that both Jane try to run away from their love interests. Granted, Liz’s reaction has much more vitriol behind it, but I think it’s going to cool down eventually once the truth comes out and Red does something to make amends.

Yeah, it’d be nice, if like Jane, Liz still had SOME measure of good feeling toward Red. But, I’ll take what I can get. As I said, I think any other reaction like those in the above examples would be out-of-character for her.

Remember: Liz also hated Tom’s guts right after she found out he’d betrayed her, and snapped the dude’s fingers and chained him up on a boat for like 8 months. And then they had a kid together and got married.

If Liz is already plotting Red’s death, I think it’s safe to say we’ll be hearing wedding bells in no time.

So, for now, we’ve got like 2.5 out of the 4 overall checkpoints. But, that last one could change very easily.

Author’s Note: And, as Season 6 showed us, it already has! Liz has admitted her feelings for Red by telling him that she loves him and by constantly working to save his life after she betrayed him.

And, yes, I realize that I said above that it would be bad if Liz ‘dad-zoned’ him, which she seemed to do toward the end of Season 6, by saying that he will always be her and Agnes’ family. I would argue, however, that she only did so because this was her way of forcing Red to be in her life, after he threatened to excommunicate her for betraying him. She basically told him: “You can’t get rid of us because we’re ~family~” and then brought Agnes back into the picture, which almost comes across as emotional blackmail. “You can’t walk away from us now, because I’ve decided to bring Agnes home.” And, we all know that Red would do literally anything for Agnes, just as much as he would for Liz. And where Liz has transgressed, Agnes has not. So, again, emotional blackmail.

Plus, I personally don’t think that Liz seeing Red in this vaguely familial way is a bad thing in this case. Liz has had her walls up against Red, more or less, pretty much since Day 1. She let them down, for sure, when they were on the run together in Season 3, but they went right back up after her name was cleared, she found out she was pregnant, and Red said the fight against the Cabal wasn’t over.

Now, though, she has clearly let him into her and Agnes’ life in a very personal way — meaning that she’s letting down her guard around him. And, as I discussed in my post about why people hate Liz so much, Red has loved Liz far longer and far deeper than she has seemingly ever loved him. So, it’d be great to see her continue to treat him with this modicum of affection that she had for him in Season 3, which has rekindled since she betrayed him in early Season 6. Let’s see Liz put some effort into her ‘relationship’ with Red, rather than just being an inert object that the force of Red’s love acts upon.

As for his weird thing with Katarina in the Season 6 finale… I hate that scene for a variety of reasons. Even still, I won’t pass judgment on what was happening there until I get more context. Was Red just messing with Katarina? Was he acting in a certain way to win her over and gain information from her — as he did with Madeline Pratt in Season 1? From the little we saw, it didn’t appear that he was really interested in kissing her initially; plus, Red is generally an affectionate guy who has no problem lip-kissing his female friends and cheek-kissing his male friends. So… there’s a lot in the air right now, which is why I’m not going to pass judgment on it just yet.

Until the final scene in the series finale (which — who knows — could be in May if Season 7 ends up being the last one), I will continue to believe that Red and Liz are the endgame couple for this show. As I said in the title, I think — given everything I wrote about above — these two love birds have a better shot than most of these other pairings.

I’m just curious to see how it’s all going to come about.