NOTE: At the end of Reel Nerds Podcast Episode 410: NXNW (the “North by Northwest” episode), Ryan announced that the Nerds would be watching “IT: Chapter 2” for the following episode, and I expressed my unwillingness to watch it. When Ryan asked me why during the recording, I didn’t have a very good response, which led to me reigniting the conversation via messenger app. What follows is the back-and-forth that Ryan and I had about horror films and the genre as a whole, which I reposted here with his blessing. At different points, he recommends films for me to watch as a way to gauge my taste in the genre, and I share those thoughts on the films as well.
I’ll tell you at the outset that it’s very long — spanning several weeks — but I figure it’s best to capture it all in a single post. I tried to edit it as best as I could, but if some misspellings, abbreviations and text shorthand slipped in, I apologize. So, without further ado, enjoy!
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Initial conversation on Aug. 31:
CORINNE: So I’ve been thinking over your question about why I don’t like horror movies. I stand by my comment that I don’t like being on edge when I watch movies to be entertained. But to expand on that, I’d say it’s because horror — as a genre — treats violence and villains/monsters differently than typical action/adventure/superhero movies do. In the latter, defeating the bad guy is pretty much a given. There might be a token death or two, but overall, it feels like a bad guy that can be defeated. In horror movies, though, the violence and death seems inevitable. No one is safe. Oftentimes the primary victims are women (like in Friday the 13th) and instead of the bad guy feeling like a typical villain, they’re more of a predator or real monster. Someone who can’t be reasoned with, someone who can’t be defeated (in true horror movie fashion, the monster is never really dead). The end is more of a reprieve from violence than it is a resounding victory, like in superhero movies. I’m sure there are exceptions, but in my limited experience with the genre, that’s what I would say. As one YouTube essayist I enjoy said — and I’m paraphrasing — for women, violence is not escapism, bc it’s something that we consider in our decision-making every day. I don’t think that’s 100 percent true, but I do think it’s on the right track. In real life, there are a lot of Jason’s and Freddy’s and Michael Meyers, unfortunately. And perhaps the horror genre glorifies those types of images and scenarios, especially through franchises. Rather than showing that the monster can be killed, it shows that the monster and the violence and death it brings with it, is inevitable and can’t be stopped. And that’s just not a very happy message. I guess it is realistic, in a way, bc humans have always been brutal to each other. But again, I watch movies more for escapism than realism (in some regards). So 🤷♀️. Like I said: I’d really like to do an article about it. Maybe I need to find a horror movie to watch to help me examine my own thoughts and reactions on why I don’t like them. Any suggestions?
RYAN: What reaction are you looking for? Are you looking to be scared or looking for a solid horror film? And too I would not say that violence is only perpetuated on women. Give me one second and I will back up what I just said with facts that I can send you. I’m not trying to belittle or dismiss what you are saying but a lot of times people that don’t watch horror films have that reaction to them. They see the monster, Freddy or Jason and assume that the violence is some form of either only preying on woman or as punishment for sex, drugs etc. I would argue that Jason is the shark in Jaws, no rhyme or reason just a predator who takes advantage of what’s presented. And also too, Friday the 13th movies are not the best example of horror films. I love them because they are an escape cinema not high art. Give me a moment and I will send you stuff to back up what I’m saying.
CORINNE: I know it’s not only women. But maybe some of the more iconic ones prominently feature female victims trying to escape a male “monster.” Like Friday the 13th. Again, not all. I just want to watch something that isn’t going to give me nightmares. I watched The Exorcist in HS and had trouble sleeping for a few days.
RYAN: I think something like You’re Next might be a good one. It is a little creepy but the twist is awesome and it happens about half way through the movie making the last half super satisfying and awesome. And too mostly the women are the ones who fight back. The term “final girl” refers to this, I mean the most iconic is Jamie Lee Curtis in Halloween.
CORINNE: True. But the monster is never really gone either. It’s like the breaks between rounds in a boxing match. I also think horror is a bigger genre than I might realize. So it will depend. Like, you said that Night of the Living Dead is horror and I was like 🤣 . Bc it wasn’t scary. And other than maybe two scenes, it wasn’t tense.
RYAN: Well, that’s just splitting hairs because you mentioned earlier superhero films with villains never really die and someone even as charismatic as Loki is responsible for more deaths then Jason ever has been. He literally killed or at least is responsible for thousands of people in New York and the Frost Giants whole civilization. So it’s truly all relative in terms on what makes someone bad and the horror they endure. But horror films will exploit and glorify the deaths more. But I see what you’re saying I just think it’s all relative if you really think about what a villain does. And we always want them to come back because of the charisma or the unstoppable nature makes you want them to be defeated. Just like the Green Goblin or Loki, we love to hate them. And in horror films it’s the monsters, Wolfman, Jason etc. But let me think about maybe not so much “classy” horror but maybe more accessible horror
CORINNE: With superhero villains, usually the violence is dealt with in a more abstract or indirect way. Yes people are dying and he’s responsible for their deaths, but they don’t show Loki murdering someone — and even the guy whose eyeball he rips out in Avengers is in a PG-13 way. It’s probably a combination of brutality + on-screen violence + unstoppable monster + tension while watching it. As I said when we reviewed Red Sparrow, I don’t really like dark and brutal movies in any form. And that was more of a spy/action/drama than it was anything close to a horror. Also it could be that I’m a giant scaredy cat bc I don’t like going to haunted houses, either. Regarding brutal movies, I also had trouble sleeping after watching The Pianist bc of how brutal it was. Which is why if I ever do Schindler’s List for CtC, I’m going to make sure to watch it early in the AM and then spend the rest of the day doing light-hearted things.
RYAN: And Schindler’s List is amazing but it is so bleak and heartbreaking. You totally need to be in the right frame of mind to watch.
CORINNE: So, I have seen the “horror” version of Phantom of the Opera. I even put it on my 1989 Filmsplosion list. Even though it’s horror, it doesn’t bother me bc the violence is so cartoony and campy. Have you seen it?
RYAN: The Robert England one? I have and it is campy fun. I would say the early Phantoms are horror as well. On a different level but they exam the horror in upper class as well as the monster who really is just a tragedy figure.
CORINNE: Yes, the one with Robert Englund. Those early horror movies are more Gothic horror than modern horror, and I have no problem with them. They’re not as brutal or violent as modern horror. They’re more in the style of a mystery, thriller or romance, depending on the IP.
RYAN: Gotcha.
Picking up the conversation in mid-September:
CORINNE: I’ve thought of a few other points but I do want to find a horror movie that’s accessible for me so I can watch it as a test and see how I react to it. … But to my earlier point: I know the Nerds’ motto is “give every movie a chance” but that’s not super practical for everyday theater-goers. Yes the pricing models are changing, but most people are paying $10 to see a movie. Now $10 isn’t a lot for most people, but when you’re on a budget and there’s x-number of movies that sound worth seeing, you’ll probably spend your money on the ones you want to see the most. Superheroes, Disney movies, blockbusters, etc. This is most people. Sure maybe you’ll watch your Juliet’s Naked and your Peanut Butter Falcons when they’re streaming somewhere sometime. But when it comes to paying to see a movie in the theater, I think I’m picky, like most people. My time isn’t worth much but my money is worth more. So paying to see something at the box office is a lot when there are plenty of alternatives on streaming or Redbox or whatever. So it’s an experience that I better enjoy. And I don’t enjoy horror movies, for the most part. Now, watching them at home, when they’re streaming or rented from the library … that might be the way to go for me. Then I can pause and turn on lights or whatever as I need to. And that might be something to try out with The Guest. But, as for new horror releases, you can count me out.
RYAN: I think you’re right. I think that’s why the “movie pass” structure is a good thing to see movies with out worrying if you wasted money. I think at Regal now it’s $21 to see as many movies as you want. My Alamo season pass gives me a lot of flexibility. Like Hustlers isn’t something I would pay to see but a friend from high school is in it and since I can see it with my season pass it really is not an issue. But movies are expensive to just drop $12 bucks on all the time. That’s why I would see the Downton Abbey movie with my season pass but if I didn’t have the pass the only way I would see it is if the Nerds picked that as the movie of the week and there was nothing else.
CORINNE: Basically, without a paying format like that, it’s expensive to take a risk on a movie you’re not particularly interested in or a genre you don’t generally like. You’re not a big romcom person; I’m not a big horror person. People have different tastes, and to ask everyday people to see movies against their taste bc they might like them is a lot to ask in a regular theater-going experience. … The pricing model changing is both good and bad. I really did see a lot more movies and took more chances when I had MoviePass. BUT I feel like it also changed the overall vibe of the theater experience. For me, a theater experience is so fun and exciting because it’s occasional and not regular. Maybe once a month or once every two months, depending on the time of year. But when you go every week or multiple times a week, it lessens it. It didn’t feel as exciting as experience. I still enjoyed a lot of those movies, but somehow the increased frequency lessened it all for me.
Picking up the conversation after I checked out “The Guest” from the library in late September:
CORINNE (before watching the movie): Also, are you sure this is a horror movie? The blurb on the back makes it sound more of an action/suspense film.
RYAN: It’s a thriller. I thought it would be a good entry into a more story driven horror/thriller. … [Dan Stevens] needs to be in more stuff. There is some stuff that happens in this movie that will surprise you. It’s not for everyone but like I said I wanted to give you a movie that is not quite a horror film but not exactly tame either. It’s a slow build but when the gloves come off it gets intense.
After actually watching the movie:
CORINNE: Dan Stevens’ name should be EDITH. Even Dead I’m The Hottest. … Except that in true horror movie fashion, he’s not dead! … They should make another one, if only so I can see Dan Stevens’ beautiful face some more. … It was pretty good. I’d give it like a 3 / 5. That’s mostly for Stevens’ and the main actress’ performances.
RYAN: Glad it was a good one for you.
CORINNE: Like I said, it was more of an action/thriller. Not a typical horror movie (whatever TF that is) up until the end.
RYAN: True. But like I said horror can come in many different styles. It’s an action/thriller with slasher movie elements. I call it a hybrid horror film because Stevens’ character is a villain in a non traditional way, but also I would argue a horror villain because what he does to the family is pretty horrific.
CORINNE: Indeed. Very horrific. But there are horrific stuff in lots of action movies these days. I watched Hotel Mumbai with my fam when I was home and that’s pretty horrific.
RYAN: I agree 100%. Hotel Mumbai is true horror. … So the director of The Guest also directed You’re Next which is one of my favorite horror films from the last decade. I would check it out or I can let you borrow it. Just a warning it’s straight up horror though with a mystery/thriller element to it.
CORINNE: I was talking about the whole “horror genre” conversation with a friend earlier today and I was talking about the difference between Gothic horror (think Universal monster movies) vs more slasher horror (Halloween movies). I have no problem with the more Gothic horror stuff, bc I think my brain goes “iz monster, no real.” But when I watch something that’s essentially a psychotic dude running around stabbing and/or shooting people, my brain goes “danger! danger!” Something that’d be in between would be like the supernatural horror (ghosts and demons) and that def freaks me out, arguably more so than the slasher stuff.
RYAN: Well, You’re Next is a home invasion horror film with a twist I would never ruin for someone who hasn’t seen it, but it’s badass. I would caution you on watching it in so much that it could happen in real life. It’s pretty unforgiving in that way. But it’s also funny in a dark way. But extremely violent too. Maybe have [a friend] with you if you decide to watch it.
CORINNE: Hmmm. I will consider that in my next wave of library rentals.
After renting and watching “You’re Next” in mid-October:
CORINNE: Well, that was fucking brutal. I kinda like how she sorta became “the monster” by the end of it.
RYAN: It is a brutal movie. But awesome.
CORINNE: Yeah, I thought it was really well shot and paced. That part of the hand coming out from under the bed is creepy AF. … I think, overall, horror is something that is easier for me to handle if 1) I have a sense for what’s coming and 2) if I watch it in an environment I can control. Watching it during the daytime in my own house, when I can pause or whatever as I need to helps a lot. But that’s definitely not something I’d pay $12 to see in a dark theater. 👻
RYAN: Right on. Yay for spooky movies!
After revisiting Zombieland in late October to prepare for its sequel:
CORINNE: I did rewatch Zombieland, as I said, and I feel like I can be more open to horror movies if:
- It’s a movie that I know is generally good / worth watching (like Night of the Living Dead or Get Out).
- It’s a horror movie someone else I know has already seen and can prepare me for it.
- I’m not paying money to see it.
- I can watch it in a controlled environment (turn on lights, pause, eat food, etc.).
- It’s not super long (IT would’ve been way too long for me. I can handle Zombieland just fine though).
RYAN: Fair enough. Horror movies are always tough if you don’t like them because the bad ones are really bad.
CORINNE: I think even a bad horror movie could still freak me out, though. Maybe. Depends on the movie, I guess. … I do remember watching some horror movies with a group of friends in high school and that was fun because we just started making fun of it and that helped me to not freak out.
On Nov. 1, after stumbling across a comedy sketch on Facebook:
CORINNE: Me, coming out of a scary movie.
RYAN: LOL